What does this mean for people who already have domestic
partnerships? Are partnerships nullified, or
should gay people still apply for them when they
get married?
The ruling is scheduled to go into effect June
16. At that point people will be able to get married
if they want, but if they're in a registered
domestic partnership in the state of California already,
they'll still be in a domestic partnership.
Now, people in a domestic partnership can get married
-- as long as they marry the same person they're in
the domestic partnership with! [Laughs] The
domestic partnership is not converted into a marriage;
it's a separate status.
So they'd effectively be keeping that status but
adding marriage?
Yes -- that's why it might be a good idea
[to have both]. For example, some states like Oregon,
Vermont, and a number of others that have domestic
partnerships and civil unions will not honor a marriage from
another jurisdiction -- but they will respect and honor a
domestic partnership from another jurisdiction. It
might not be a bad idea to have a marriage and a
domestic partnership if you're traveling to one of
those states.
How does this affect people who live in other states but
want to marry in California?
There are no residency requirements to get
married in California, so people from other states can
come and get married here. The problem they may
experience is that if the couple breaks up, there is a
residency requirement in California to divorce. You
have to live in California for six months before you
can file for a divorce.
Uh-oh! How might that complicate things?
In some states that may not recognize the
marriage, it may not be possible to get divorced where
they live.
So they'd have to move back here to qualify for
the divorce?
Correct. We've seen this happen in
Canada. Canada has no residency requirements to marry
[some jurisdictions impose a short waiting period,
however], but it has a one-year residency requirement for
divorce. So there are gay people living in other
jurisdictions who haven't been able to get a
divorce.
That sounds like a romantic comedy waiting to happen.
Some people might say, "Well, it
doesn't really matter because [the other
jurisdictions] don't honor your marriage, so
what?" But it's problematic from a
couple points of view. First of all, if you wanted to marry
somebody else at some point, you wouldn't be able to
do that without divorcing the person you were
previously married to.
And that person still retains certain marital rights, correct?
Well, let me give you an example. A couple from
Indiana comes to California to get married and then
goes back to Indiana, which doesn't treat them
as married. They split up, but they're not able to
get a divorce from California unless one of them moves
here. They might say, "So what," but say
one of them comes back to California, or is traveling
here on vacation or business. Let's say they get in a
car accident and they're in the hospital. Since
they married in California, the person who used to be
their spouse is the person making medical decisions for
them, if they're incapacitated.
Yikes.
The person you broke up with now gets to make
medical decisions for you if you're in a coma?
I don't think that's what most people would
want! [Laughs]
Of course, there are no such stipulations for straight
couples. They can get divorced wherever they want, right?
That's because their marriages are
honored everywhere.
Could a California couple divorce in Massachusetts, since
that state also has legalized gay marriage?
Well, Massachusetts also has a residency
requirement to divorce. Almost all states do. It used
to be that you could go to Nevada to obtain a quickie
divorce, but even then you had to establish residency for a
couple weeks. The [lesbian-themed] movie Desert
Hearts is about a woman in the late '50s
who went to Reno, Nev., and lived there for a couple
weeks to get a divorce. [Nevada now has a six weeks
residency requirement for divorce.]
But even so, for all intents and purposes, Massachusetts
will still recognize a California marriage in the
exact same way, right? And those are the two
states in the U.S. that will?
There have also been several rulings in New
York. Even though you can't get married there,
New York will honor out-of-state marriages. There have
been several lawsuits already in New York -- including one
divorce -- of couples married in Canada. New York
doesn't have a [Defense of Marriage Act], but
it has principles that honor all marriages that were valid
where they were entered, except for bigamists, polygamists,
or closely incestuous marriages.
So you're saying that a gay couple from New York
could go to California and have that marriage
recognized by their home state?
California is just like Canada right now; get
married and New York will treat them as married.
Married gay couples in California have gained a
whole bunch of state rights, but what federal rights do
they still not have?
Well, we still don't have any federal
rights like federal social security, veterans'
benefits, federal tax treatment as if you were
married, certain tax exemptions...none of those are
available. There are 1,138 federal laws that treat
people differently if they're married. Because
of the federal Defense of Marriage Act, gay couples that get
married in California will be treated as single for all
federal law purposes.
How does this affect filing taxes?
Generally, because state returns take certain
figures off the federal returns, you'll have to
prepare two federal returns: one that you file as
single, the other you calculate as married. Now, you
don't file that [married] one, but you use
those figures off the married form to figure out your
state tax. So it requires more work, but that's
always been true of domestic partners in California.
It won't be a change for the people
who've already registered as domestic partners.
Does this change adoption rights for gay couples at all?
That's totally separate from marriage. A
single person can adopt -- except in Florida, which
doesn't allow gay people to adopt. In other
jurisdictions same-sex couples can jointly adopt at the same
time, or they can do what's called a
second-parent adoption, where one person adopts and
the second person adopts after that. But gay marriage in
California is irrelevant to adoption, which is a legal
arrangement between a parent and child that is not
dependent on the relationship between the
parents.
People won't be able to get married until 30 days
after the ruling. Why is that?
In a normal situation, decisions of the
California Supreme Court are not final until 30 days
after they've been decided -- so that would be June
16. In that period of time, the court could take further
action with respect to the decision. They could modify
it in some way; they could rehear the case; they could
make some changes. The decision isn't final
yet, so the government isn't required to take any
action until it is. What is going on at the county
level -- and these are the counties that give out
marriage licenses -- is that they're going to wait
for this final decision, in part because they have to
get instruction from the State Registrar of Vital
Statistics, who will tell them what they're
supposed to do.
Should we be at all nervous about the fact that
there's a 30-day period during which this
decision could change?
I think that it's incredibly unlikely
that the court will change its mind. [The judges] had
plenty of time to consider it and they wrote very
detailed opinions. There was an interview in the Los Angeles
Times with Chief Justice Ronald George about how
carefully he considered what he would do. But the
government doesn't have to comply yet. Gov.
Schwarzenegger said the state will comply once the decision
is final.
But if a request to rehear this decision is filed,
that's going to extend the waiting period to 60 days,
not 30, right?
The court could extend it, but they don't
have to extend it. They could deny the hearing before
the expiration of the 30 days. We don't think
it's very likely that they will extend the finality
of the decision.
Who could be expected to file a request to rehear?
Well, the people that have threatened to file it
are the Alliance Defense Fund and Liberty Counsel, who
originally sued to set aside the San Francisco
marriages. The court found that they actually
shouldn't be treated as parties to the
litigation, so it's not actually clear that
they have the ability to seek a rehearing. So they've
said they're going to try and do that, but they
haven't done it yet. Again, we don't think it's very
likely that the court will grant a rehearing, or that it
will extend the time in which the decision will become
final. [As of press time, Mathew Staver of the Liberty
Counsel and Campaign for California Families, had
threatened to file a motion to extend the waiting period
until the November ballot.]
Were anything to happen regarding an extension
period, would we only find out about it on June 16, or
would we know about it sooner?
We could know about it sooner. It depends on
when these other groups seek a rehearing -- the court
could deny the rehearing right away.
Are churches now required to marry us?
Not at all. Neither religious groups nor clergy
members are required to marry same-sex couples any
more than they're required to marry interfaith
couples or couples who are not part of their congregations.
For example, if you're Catholic, you
can't get married if you're divorced. Orthodox
Jews can't get a rabbi to marry them to someone who
is not Jewish. There is absolute freedom of religion
for religious groups to decide whom to marry or what
marriages to honor for religious purposes.
One last practical question: Where do you get a
marriage license?
What you need to do is get a license from the
office of the registrar recorder or county clerk.
They're called different things in different
counties, but it's a county office. You can get that
application in advance from most county websites, and
you can either complete it in advance or take it to
the county clerk's office. Both of the people in
the relationship who want to marry need to come in person to
the county office, and they need to present a
government-issued picture ID to prove that
they're over 18, or, if they're under 18, they
either need to have parental consent or go before a
court. They have to pay a license fee, which varies by
county but is generally under $100, and then the license
is valid for 90 days. You then must have the marriage
officiated by someone -- either a judge, a court
commissioner, a deputy commissioner, or someone sworn
in to do marriages.
Like Gavin Newsom?
Yes, in San Francisco the mayor was sworn in to
perform marriages. So you do all those things, fill
out your application, show your picture ID, and pay
your fee.
And then?
And then you have your wedding!